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It's only a huge issue for me if either of the pair are underage. I admit it would be a bit weird if a 17 year old went out with a 50 year old; 16 and 17 aren't too different. But hey, I've always been attracted to much older people, and would feel like people are making too big a deal if they objected to me going out with someone older.

My 15 year old sister is going out with a 22 year old boy. I think that's wrong. I guess she looks a bit older for her age, but she's a CHILD. I'm only 19, and the thought of me going out with a 15 year old is so wrong. I don't see why my sister can't just wait 7 months until she is legal and there would be no issue... meh, they're having sex anyway... I'd still find it weird on her bf's part to be going out with her at his age, even if she did turn 16. You grow up very fast during puberty, but when you're out of it, years don't matter so much. Some people stay pretty much the same.

Date: 2010-08-31 06:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jolteons.livejournal.com
I am not entirely sure how the law works in the uk, but I know that here, if a 22 year-old is having sex with someone who is 15, he will go to prison. not jail, prison. No matter how consensual the sex. For probably about 10 years. Your sister should maybe read up.

Date: 2010-08-31 07:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] richard-vw.livejournal.com
Is there a difference between jail and prison? We use the terms interchangeably.

In any case, it's the same here. We've tried to tell her he can go to jail, but my sister's got that "oh it'll never happen to me" attitude about EVERYTHING. My mum calls her bf "pedo" in front of him, and we don't care - it's not as if Kim is mature for her age or anything. I can't understand why he'd go out with her. SHE IS STILL A CHILD. She's been having sex since about 13/14 we think :/ She's out of control in so many aspects and none of us know what to do any more.

Date: 2010-08-31 07:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jolteons.livejournal.com
Haha, well in the state of wisconsin (where my compulsory law system education took place :P) jail is somewhere you go for misdemeanor crimes (your first drunk driving offense, shoplifting, etc.) and prison is for the biggies, the felonies, rape, gun crimes, big embezzlement etc. Prison sentences are typically >3 years and if someone is a convicted felon there is not a whole not more they can expect out of life. Nearly impossible to get employment/must get neighborhood approval before moving in somewhere/etc.

It always makes me squirm to think about 13 year olds having sex, even though I know that so many do-- I just imagine myself at 13........ now THAT would have been a disaster!

It is very difficult when parents lose control over their children because you are never quite sure how to proceed. It is even harder (I don't know anything about your situation, this may or may not apply) when there isn't a whole lot of extra money or time to dedicate to trying to right things.

Either way, I'm sorry your sister is such a shit :(

Date: 2010-08-31 07:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] richard-vw.livejournal.com
Ohh, well I like the sound of Wisconsin. As far as I know, here, you're thrown in with the big felons even if you're convicted of something relatively minor, which I don't think is right. I don't think Kim, my little sister, realizes that even if it's consensual, her boyfriend would be viewed as a sex offender.

Tell me about it! The thought of me doing what kids do now at that age, ha!

Oh yes, I don't know what happened with Kim - her friends are a big part of it, and her last bf, but even now, as her friends are getting themselves back into school etc., she's not motivated to do anything like that. She's always been the most selfish person I've known, even for little things like always playing her crap music in the car but objecting if I want to play mine. She doesn't get the concept of "other people", it seems. *sigh* My parents are trying to get something sorted out with her, but it makes me feel bad that I 'll be moving back to Glasgow and leaving Mum to deal with it. :/

I'm thinking she'll be a good subject for a huge rant here on LJ one of these days. :( I'm sorry she's such a shit too - I feel bad, but I'm getting to the stage where I don't care if she's in my life any more. I feel like saying to her "If you want me in your life... well, let me know. If not..." There is time for her to turn around yet, though. I'm just hoping it's sooner rather than later!

Date: 2010-08-31 08:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jolteons.livejournal.com
Yeah. I mean, being only 15, she definitely has time to work herself out, even before school ends! Unfortunately that sort of thing has to come from within :(

One interesting thing I have noticed is the difference in attitudes between america and the uk about teen sex/drinking/drug use. maybe it is in the legality as you have to be 18 for sex here and 21 to drink, but people are just so much more lenient about young kids engaging in such behaviour. I mean, a few months ago I was on the train to Glasgow, and there was this group of girls about maybe 12 or 13, and they were shouting at each other at the top of their lungs, changing into super skanky clubbing clothing, and CLEARLY drinking underage. The way that the midwestern culture goes, any one of the however many presentable adults on the train would have phoned up the police, who would have come to control the obnoxiousness... but instead people were simply looking the other way and I was shocked to see some adults even encouraging them by chatting with them, flirting with them, and laughing at their behaviour! It just goes to show culture differences, which I am super interested in, being a nerd, haha.

I was explaining all this to my boyfriend, who is from there, and he was like, yeh, well that's how it is... I'm not saying one way is necessarily better than the other but it was a definite culture shock moment for me and my naivety!

Date: 2010-08-31 08:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] richard-vw.livejournal.com
Oh, there is definitely a huge culture difference. Britain, especially Scotland, has a huge underage drinking problem, however, no one seems bothered to do anything. It makes me sick - and sad, because no one seems to be able to do anything socially these days without alcohol coming into it. I'm tee-total, and I feel like people view me at least a little differently when I tell them that. These days if someone is good in school, still a virgin at 18, tee-total or at least in control of their drinking, THAT'S the exception, and it's so sad. If I ever have kids, I've vowed to bring them up elsewhere.

Even the police are lax about it - my sister has been picked up drunk so many times, she has a bigger criminal record than most people my age I know, yet they don't do much about it. In fact, her record will get wiped when she turns 16. WTF?! She's assaulted police officers and everything... part of the problem is the police being too soft on the kids, so there's no deterrent. :/

Date: 2010-08-31 07:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/__cottoncandy__/
I love your answer and couldn't agree with you more! Any age difference over 18 I don't think is weird. My friend is 24 and her boyfriend is 43. That's quite the difference but they're perfect for each other. I'm 20, and just the thought of me dating someone underage - even 17 - is just so gross to me. At that age there's so much peer pressue and as cliche as it sounds, they haven't really "found themselves" like they do once they're out in the real world. That being said; Not only is it illegal, I don't know why someone overage would want to have a relationship with someone underage.

I too have always been attracted to older people, but I guess it backfired now since my last boyfriend was 12 years older than me but more immature than a 12 year old =P

Date: 2010-08-31 07:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] richard-vw.livejournal.com
Thanks :)
I'm the same - it'd be a case by case basis of course, but I can't see myself going out with anyone under 18. Not as an ageist thing, but... well they're kids. I agree that kids haven't really found themselves, even by 16, when they're legally allowed to have sex (here at least). I remember being that age, and thinking I knew myself so well. As it turns out, I didn't. And so many people go through that too.

Aww, yeah, in your case :( Still, I like someone who knows themselves, have been through life. This doesn't always come with age, but it's a safer bet a 30 yr old will have it than a 17 yr old! :P And plus, wrinkles on a guy = :D (to an extent :P)

Date: 2010-08-31 07:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sariebeth88.livejournal.com
My parents wouldn't let me within 2 feet on someone who was 22 when I was 15. I was mature for my age too and I looked older. It just means as parents you have to be...idk if controlling is the word but I mean they were on me. I went to a party with my parents when a sub came back from overseas and all the guys were obviously 18+, my older sister figure was dating one at the time, and guys were asking my dad if they could take me out. He's like...she's 14. That made them run off. Over here there is a greater fear of getting caught screwing someone underage. If he was a good guy, he'd wait but he clearly doesn't give a shit.

Date: 2010-08-31 07:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] richard-vw.livejournal.com
My parents have done all they can to prevent her from doing what she does- going out and getting drunk, for example, but there is only so much they can do. My little sister has physically attacked all of us in the house... :/ She's really out of control, but we're sorting stuff out with social workers and stuff to try to get her back on track. She went through a period of a few weeks where she stayed out night after night without letting us know where she was. And she stole the keys to my dad's flat and trashed it with her friends. My dad doesn't actually know about this boyfriend - if he did, he'd end up in jail himself; he'd never be able to control his temper. :/

My little sister doesn't know the meaning of "good guy". She goes for the "bad boys" who are pretty much using her for sex and booze. She ends up falling in love with them and wonders why she gets hurt. She already knows this guy has cheated on her, yet still she takes him back, after having a huge break up with her last boyfriend.

Date: 2010-08-31 08:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] polymale.livejournal.com
I agree with what's been said. Adults should not be going out with kids. Now, I understand his possible motivation, maybe it's just sex, maybe there's caring/love involved.. him being 22, and maturity varying how it is, depending on his self-perception.. I can understand it.

Legally in the US, he'd be a pedo.. he's also be subject to the rather draconian laws for such things.. in the UK, I don't know. I do hesitate to condemn it wholly for a couple of reasons: history, and I personally know a couple where she (a minor), persued him (a teacher). Fast forward 10 or 15 years later, and they're married with several kids and (as far as I know, it's a good friend of a friend) they're happy.

Historically in the West, and in some places culturally even today, people of a relatively young age (13 to early 20s) aren't considered children, but adults, with adult responsibilities. And with such things comes adult perquisities, such as starting and raising a family. All I'm really getting at is that while it's wrong here in the West, it's more of a modern cultural artifact than you might think.. and food for thought, well, it's good :)

Date: 2010-08-31 08:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] richard-vw.livejournal.com
Hmm, I think it's more sex-based. My sister is incredibly immature, and frequently goes out drinking and stuff. We're doing all we can to help her just now, but we can't lock her up. She knows her current boyfriend has cheated on her, but like so many others, she goes back to him and wonders why it ends so badly.

I don't hesitate to condemn it much. If someone is underage, their partners should be able to wait. It's only going to be one or two years at the most, and frankly, anything more than that, I think that is a child. I know it's different culturally, but I'm viewing this mostly on my sister's case - SHE IS A CHILD. She does look a bit older, I guess, but that's beside the point - she is not a mature 15 year old. In fact, I know another girl who is in a similar position - Yana is 15, her boyfriend is 21. Now, for Yana, I don't object so much. She is mature, and they are not having sex. When she is 16, well there is nothing any one can do about it.

I think we should have moved on culturally. Yes, children as young as 13 were once expected to marry and raise children, but we're not in a time where a girl had to be married by 20 or be seen as worthless. People do not have to marry today as they did in the past.

Some relationships do work out, I agree, but what's wrong in the partner waiting until the other is legal, then they are doing nothing wrong. However, when I think back of how sure I thought I was of myself at 16, I'm not so sure we should be encouraging this kind of thing at all.

Date: 2010-08-31 08:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] polymale.livejournal.com
I do want to re-emphasize that I am in no way saying that it's a good idea for your sister to be doing what she's doing, not for any kid to be doing that with adults.. plus, in a lot of places, it's totally illegal. Also, kids being the way they are in the West, they're sure not able to handle it (with rare exceptions), even with their peers.

I'm not sure that in the west it was ever thought that a woman was useless at 20.

As far as culture goes, I'm not making the statement that how it is now, here in the West, is necessarily optimal. That's a cultural bias that I try and avoid. And while that could lead off into an interesting discussion in its own right (I may have to make a post on that), it's not germane here.

Date: 2010-08-31 09:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] richard-vw.livejournal.com
Haha, no problem, I guess the whole situation with her makes me angry and it came across in my reply.

Well, maybe 20 was an exaggeration. I'm not sure about history in any way, but I've definitely heard of young women feeling doomed for spinsterhood because they're not married by a very young age. And in a time where family and children was seen as a woman's calling.

How it is now in the West is definitely not optimal, IMO, especially not in Britain. I could spend a long time bitching about Britain, haha. :P But it's not really the place here :P

Date: 2010-08-31 10:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] juliacheese.livejournal.com
The hubs and I are 13 years apart so obviously I have no issue with it.

Just a kid issue atm...i dont want em yet and he thinks hes getting old. 35 is not old.

Date: 2010-09-01 03:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] richard-vw.livejournal.com
Hmm, yeah the kid issue. But I guess that can come in any relationship, probably more in age gap relationships though. 35 is not old for having kids - it sounds bad, but especially not for guys. It's getting to the part of a woman's life where she needs to really think about having kids soon if she wants them, but a man can continue having kids way above that age. I hope you get something sorted.
(deleted comment)

Date: 2010-09-01 03:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] richard-vw.livejournal.com
Yup, that's it. When you're past the adolescent and "finding yourself" stage, age isn't important much. (Although I guess someone's "finding themselves" stage could last much longer!)

I don't see why anyone past 18 would want to go out with a 15 year old or so. Fair enough when they're your peers, but now looking at them, they're really just children. And I'm only 19.

Date: 2010-09-01 08:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eileanach.livejournal.com
When I was sixteen and stupid my one act of rebellion was dating a many twenty four years older than me. What a big mess that was. I wish I hadn't.

I think that is wrong too your sister isn't even legal age. Having experienced older people myself you need to be VERY careful around them and I recommend your sister really takes care and doesn't get abused in anyway shape or form.

Date: 2010-09-01 03:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] richard-vw.livejournal.com
Definitely. I think the guy is really immature himself, but he's still an adult regardless. She's still naive, even though she thinks she knows it all. She knows he's been cheating on her, yet still goes back to him. She's had a bad relationship before this, where the guy was about her age, but even then he got another girl pregnant and everything :/ She definitely needs to be careful, but we can't even say that to her in a concerned way. :/

Date: 2010-09-01 04:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eileanach.livejournal.com
Without sounding silly I was a young girl blinded by the rose tinted glasses myself so I sympathise with her naiveté but just try not to be too hard on her inform her that you are worried and explain why but in the end the more everyone fights her and forbids her from doing something the more she'll do it.

Sucks that a a previous boyfriend has led to this.

Date: 2010-09-01 04:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] richard-vw.livejournal.com
Ohh, she's naive in every aspect of the word. Unfortunately there are many problems right now with her and her behavior, so this boyfriend thing is just one of them. Any concern we raise for her, she takes it as a personal attack on her "lifestyle", and choices etc, and does anything she can to rebel them. When she put cooking oil on her skin to get a tan (!), I tried to explain that she is damaging her skin now, and the build up will inevitably lead to skin cancer. We can't tell her the dangers of smoking and drinking. I wouldn't mind so much with an older boyfriend if we knew they were both mature, and weren't getting into all this other trouble. But ultimately we're past giving her all these chances - she needs to know how things are. She needs a damn reality check. *sigh*

Date: 2010-09-01 09:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eileanach.livejournal.com
I am so sorry it sounds like it would be so stressful putting up with your sister's rebellion. It's an awkward age for her but I am not defending her in anyway or think it is acceptable - it isn't and she will end up getting hurt. I speak from experience in that respect.

Date: 2010-09-01 11:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] richard-vw.livejournal.com
Oh no, I didn't think you were defending her. I know that the path she is on is no good, and it's affecting the whole family. I just hope she sees what she's doing very soon and at least tries to fix it.

Date: 2010-09-02 08:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eileanach.livejournal.com
I hope she sees sense soon too and tries to mend the broken bridge because she will regret it later if she doesn't.

Date: 2012-10-22 04:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rasfuda.livejournal.com
It’s arduous to find educated people on this subject, but you sound like you understand what you’re talking about! Thanks
Also read about the new threat to the peaceful existence. Peace or world war 3. http://worldwar3orpeace.blogspot.com/

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